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Old 09-28-2012, 06:21 PM   #1
jenyus
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The Little Sluece has been paved!

well not exactly paved, but they broke apart all the big rocks and filled it with filler rock. so lame! you can read more here. im so sick of california.the rubicon already was much easier than i was expecting it to be. soon you won't even need to put it in 4x4. especially at a time when the state is totally broke, we're paying to FLY rocks in by helicopter to fill in the little sluece. SO. FREAKING. STUPID

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gener...ed-friday.html

heres how it looked last month when i did it with some friends
\


heres my buddy roasting his swampers to make it through. won't be doing that anymore!

heres how it looks now.


heres the response email about it now:
Quote:
From: Jack Sweeney < jack.sweeney@edcgov.us>
Date: Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 11:25 AM
Subject: Rock Reduction Little Sluice Rubicon Trail
To: The BOSTHREE < bosthree@edcgov.us>


To All and please share and forward:
A few years ago, large rocks were pushed and pulled into the Little Sluice by persons that wanted to create a challenging course in spite of the fact it was on a public road. *
Usage in that area has created many problems that have had bad*effects on the environment. *Efforts to resolve those effects have included an effort to close the whole trail. *Efforts to educate users and to resolve the problem appear not to have been successful as the problems persist. *


The clean up and abatement order (CAO) issued by the Central Valley Regional Water Quality Control Board April 23, 2009 cited concerns regarding the contamination in the area and required it be*re-mediated.


On January 26, 2010 the El Dorado County Board of Supervisors held a five hour long hearing which resulted in a motion that specifically contained the direction to"reduce the rocks in Little Sluice". (See agenda item 25 legis # 10-0049). With this action and the CAO in place the Forest Service indicated a concern regarding the county's authority to undertake all but the simplest of remediation and maintenance to satisfy the CAO.


The county determined to clean up the legalities by applying for an easement from the Forest Service and that easement was granted and accepted on August 14, 2012. Part of the easement process was the settlement of the appeals filed in objection to the easement. During that process the reduction of the rocks in Little Sluice was brought as being*necessary*to obtain agreement to remove certain appeals and it was confirmed that we would fulfill the direction of January 26, 2010.


The county is not going to turn the Little Sluice into a paved trail! *We must eliminate the hazard rocks so that a nearly stock four wheel drive can*maneuver*its way through the area without being overturned and without causing environmental damage. We will be adding some of the shot rock from the adit in an effort to avoid soil disturbance.


We cannot leave the Little Sluice in its present condition and avoid closure of the Rubicon Trail!


We appreciate*everyone's*assistance and observation of good rules of the trail. *May we all try to keep this trail available to all users.
--
Thanks,

Supervisor James R. "Jack" Sweeney
Supervisor, District III
El Dorado County Board of Supervisors
530-621-5652
530-622-3645
Assistant: *Karen Feathers
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:32 PM   #2
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Isn't that tree supposed to have fallen last winter?? What tree fell?
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:08 AM   #3
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Uh, looks as though it has larger rocks today, that it back in the day.

I do not have an answer, but do know if the Rubicon is closed, it makes no difference how big or small the rocks are.
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:51 AM   #4
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Yeah I understand that. It's just lame how much regulation there is on a 4x4 trail. I blame you, Wayne, you're from el dorado county :P
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Old 09-29-2012, 01:07 AM   #5
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I think that tree split in half but I'm not totally sure. It was all cleared out by the time I got there
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Old 09-29-2012, 04:52 AM   #6
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I would have liked to hit that trail one of these days.
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Old 09-29-2012, 06:52 AM   #7
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It is obvious from the pictures that the trail had been "improved for rock crawling" by having debris/stone placed within the trail boundries over the years. It is very lucky they didnt close the trail altogether.

We have several trails on public land near here that were closed to anything but pedestrian hiking/walking,,,,and the reason was potholes and deep muck holes from aggressive wheeling were deemed dangerous for STOCK vehicles. So a few visiting flatlanders filled in some of the holes, which the state, fed forest service as well as the EPA, then declared as illegal improvements and closed the areas. Agenda 21 is intended as a true catch 22...........................
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Old 09-29-2012, 09:35 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenyus View Post
Yeah I understand that. It's just lame how much regulation there is on a 4x4 trail. I blame you, Wayne, you're from el dorado county :P
Hey, we had the road built in the first place, its our county road. I gotta say though, it is still almost as bad as California highways.

If all goes according to plan, in a couple of weeks, I will see the improvements with a bunch of Jeep guys. They invited me last year, but it snowed the night before, so being not that dedicated, I did not go. I would like to go before they put the asphalt in. I hear they want it so smooth, they are not even going to install speed bumps.
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Old 09-29-2012, 03:48 PM   #9
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the shitty thing is there was a bypass for this area.. so nearly stock 4x4s didnt need to go through here
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:59 PM   #10
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the shitty thing is there was a bypass for this area.. so nearly stock 4x4s didnt need to go through here
That's a shame.
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talonxracer View Post
It is obvious from the pictures that the trail had been "improved for rock crawling" by having debris/stone placed within the trail boundries over the years. It is very lucky they didnt close the trail altogether.

We have several trails on public land near here that were closed to anything but pedestrian hiking/walking,,,,and the reason was potholes and deep muck holes from aggressive wheeling were deemed dangerous for STOCK vehicles. So a few visiting flatlanders filled in some of the holes, which the state, fed forest service as well as the EPA, then declared as illegal improvements and closed the areas. Agenda 21 is intended as a true catch 22...........................
Unfortunately, your post is not considered by many people, especially those that are extremest in rock crawling. My comments here are not intended to be negative toward anyone or any group. It is not my intent to offend anyone.

In my opinion, the more people that use the trail, the less likely it will be closed. I was on the trail 12, 13 and 14 of Oct, with my Samurai as in my signature. I was also on the trail about 15 years ago. I am not convinced the degree of difficulty was that different. On my recent trip, there were many machines that could not go through the Little Sluice.

It is my understanding, between my recent trip, and my previous trip, a few trail users modified Little Sluice to make it more extreme. Keep in mind, one of the arguments to keep it open is that it is still a county road. If it is modified to only be used by what are referred to as extreme machines, the argument that it is a county road is in jeopardy, and could result or at least contribute to the trail closure.

It can be a lot of fun to build an extreme machine for any machine related sport. It is also fun to develop skills and overcome challenges a lesser extreme machine offers. Arguments can be made in favor of either.

The guys that invited me to trail with them were Jeepers. Several run the Rubicon several times a tear, and have been doing so for many years. There were 10 Jeeps, of which at least two owners have been running the trail for over 18 years, in different vehicles.

I have never been on a Jeepers Jambore. I totally support their using the trail every year. I may even go next year. As I previously said, the more that use the trail, the more people to defend it being left open.

In the photos below, I was on the south side of the Little Sluice, looking west.

1st photo: The brown Jeep was following behind me. It rolled on the bypass, which is pretty steep and is a bit off camber. The bypass is just in the Little Sluice from the west end, on the south side. There is another bypass on the north side.

The 2nd and 3rd are of the Little Sluice. Keep in mind, these guys picked their line, and it was not necessarily the toughest line they could choose.

.
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:32 PM   #12
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the bummer is there were ways around it that were just fine for less modified rigs. we spent hours watching the big crawlers mash their way through there, and now we can't do that. we're running out of places to watch the ultimate crawlers really get challenged, which is great to watch. there was a KOH rig with rear steer, 42" stickies, etc. etc. that got stuck in there. i just dont think that anything on the trail that might be challenging should be "fixed" especially if there was a bypass around that section of trail.
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:06 PM   #13
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I may stand corrected, but I am not sure the bypasses are part of the actual trail. Personally, I think they should be, at least the one on the north side. If they were approved, then maybe the powers that be would allow the Little Sluice to be changed to an extreme challenge.

I will add, that regardless of when and where we think we are seeing the ultimate crawlers, we are not. I am 69-years old, and my generation saw the ultimate crawlers before 1972. Then someone with the money built a ultimate crawler to top the first. It is never ending. Don't misunderstand, I have no issue with the ultimate crawlers, and back in the day had one for the sand. I do enjoy them. But, it has to all be kept in perspective. While there are a lot of ultimate crawlers using the Rubicon trail, I think maybe they are a minority.

I spent most of Saturday watching vehicles go through the Little Sluice. The photo of the Samurai was only one of many. If we put it in perspective, even with the modified trail, he had quite a challenge. I enjoyed watching him and other vehicles go through the Little Sluice.

I would not be surprised if green stickers were not allowed on the Rubicon in the next few years. Keep in mind, it is a county road. All it will take is more negative publicity and the right lawsuit in front of the right Judge.

I have never been to Fordice (sp), but have heard it is more difficult than the Rubicon.

Wayne
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:16 PM   #14
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Part of the issue is the moniker of Extreme, it makes lawyers salviate, as it indicates liability,,,even a bogus lawsuit can get it closed,,,,the answer is easy,,,make lawyers illegal!
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:29 PM   #15
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The by passes were not part of the trail.
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