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Old 01-07-2013, 08:43 AM   #1
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Civilian Disarmament in the U.S.

Email that I got. Makes a lot of sense, IMO.



Why Civilian Disarmament in the U.S. is Just a Statist Fantasy

I often have SurvivalBlog readers forward me alarmist e-mails, warning of "total disarmament" of the civilian populace. While there indeed may be plans or schemes to disarm Americans, I don't consider these threats credible. Let me explain why: I would conservatively estimate that there are about 316 million firearms in private hands in the United States. Of these, less than 10% are logged in any formal registry. Perhaps another 30% have Form 4473s filed with the FFL dealers where they were first purchased, but that is a fractured mishmash of records with a quite perishable life span. It is notable that we live in a very mobile society, where most families move every three or four years. And in most states, there are no record keeping requirements for secondary sales of firearms. So to call the accumulation of 4473 forms a de facto registration system is laughable.

A Congressional Research Service report provides these details:

The National Institute of Justice (NIJ) reported in a national survey that in 1994, 44 million people, approximately 35% of households, owned 192 million firearms, 65 million of which were handguns. Seventy-four percent of those individuals were reported to own more than one firearm. According to the ATF, by the end of 1996 approximately 242 million firearms were available for sale to or were possessed by civilians in the United States. That total includes roughly 72 million handguns (mostly pistols, revolvers, and derringers), 76 million rifles, and 64 million shotguns. By 2000, the number of firearms had increased to approximately 259 million: 92 million handguns, 92 million rifles, and 75 million shotguns. By 2007, the number of firearms had increased to approximately 294 million: 106 million handguns, 105 million rifles, and 83 million shotguns.

In the past, most guns available for sale were produced domestically. In recent years, 1 million to 2 million handguns were manufactured each year, along with 1 million to 1.5 million rifles and fewer than 1 million shotguns. From 2001 through 2007, however, handgun imports nearly doubled, from 711,000 to nearly 1.4 million. By 2009, nearly 2.2 million handguns were imported into the United States. From 2001 through 2007, rifle imports increased from 228,000 to 632,000, and shotgun imports increased from 428,000 to 726,000. By 2009, rifle imports had increased to 864,000, but shotguns had decreased 559,000. By the same year, 2009, the estimated total number of firearms available to civilians in the United States had increased to approximately 310 million: 114 million handguns, 110 million rifles, and 86 million shotguns.

The sheer number of guns that have little or no paper trail would make it virtually impossible to for any Papa Fidel or Chairman Mao Wannabes to implement a national registration scheme. Americans are quite independent by nature and are unlikely to comply with any universal registration edict. Consider the recent experience in Germany, where a new national registry logged in only 5.5 million guns, while 17 million guns remain un-papered in the hands of refuseniks. Now, if this happened in Germany--where the populace is famous for being sticklers to most laws (except on the autobahnen)--can you imagine the result if this were attempted in the United States? To call it massive noncompliance would be putting it mildly.

The bottom line: Be vigilant and vocal with our elected officials about any proposed legislation, but don't worry too much about the police ever going door to door, looking for unregistered guns. If this were attempted, they wouldn't get very far. I can predict that if Eric Holder ever wants to turn his fantasies of disarming the American people into reality, then he'll have to enlist the aid of every sworn law enforcement officer, every soldier, every prison guard, every park ranger, every dog catcher and every meter maid in the country. But I doubt many of those folks will be enthusiastic, in carrying out unconstitutional orders. So then he'd undoubtedly also need the help of a hundred divisions of foreign troops. My advice to Mr. Holder: Order up plenty of body bags. You'll need them.

Veteran blogger and Appleseed program shooting instructor Bob Owens recently summarized the mathematics of rebellion, quite succinctly: "A nation with just 800,000 law enforcement officers and 3 million active and reserve military personal cannot easily defeat and enslave a free people armed with 300 million firearms, even if large numbers of the police and military didn’t walk away or switch sides to follow their oath to the Constitution instead of any given leader, as many assuredly will."
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:52 AM   #2
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On another note....how many gun owners do you think would actually comply to registering their guns/magazines/etc., if a law like that ever gets passed? Not many, IMO.
A law like that is just going to make law-abiding citizens into "criminals", IMO.
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:02 AM   #3
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Our commie loving anti american Gov stated yesterday that it is his plan to remove ALL Assault type weapons, semi-auto rifles, semi-auto shotguns, semi-auto pistols and pump shotguns. The DEC has already let it slip that they have proposed REGULATIONS that prohibits the above from being used during hunting, thusly the Gov says because these weapons are now no longer sporting arms they are illegal people killing weapons only.

AND he desires to enact anti-Castle doctrine legislation, EXCEPT for the elites who employ armed mercenary companies bonded and licensed by the state.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:04 AM   #4
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Our commie loving anti american Gov stated yesterday that it is his plan to remove ALL Assault type weapons, semi-auto rifles, semi-auto shotguns, semi-auto pistols and pump shotguns. The DEC has already let it slip that they have proposed REGULATIONS that prohibits the above from being used during hunting, thusly the Gov says because these weapons are now no longer sporting arms they are illegal people killing weapons only.

AND he desires to enact anti-Castle doctrine legislation, EXCEPT for the elites who employ armed mercenary companies bonded and licensed by the state.
Yes, while I am sure his plan is to ban all semi-auto firearms, I really don't see it happening. Look at all the semi-auto firearms that are used "legitimately" for non-hunting, non-people killing purposes.....trap shooting, pistol shooting competitions, plinking in general, etc. When they start getting into "areas" of firearm uses, other than hunting, then I see the support going even lower, from both the public and congress.
What kind of guns can be used for hunting is going to be determined by the states, not by the federal govt. So unless the govt can convince all the states to ban all semi-auto guns for hunting, competition shooting, plinking, etc. then there is always going to be a "need" for semi-auto guns to be legal. It's kinda the same deal as the federal healthcare law...govt can make it a law, but states do not have to accept it. http://www.healthcarelawsuit.us/
I was reading the other day, where even the "assault weapons" ban reinstatement doesn't have the support of any republican and not even several democrats. So it seems they are a long ways away from banning all semi-auto firearms in general.
Say that the govt did ban all semi-auto firearms and required everyone to turn in all their semi-auto guns. How long do you think it would take to clear the USA of all semi-auto guns? How would they even do that, when they don't know who possesses these types of guns? How many "enforcers" of that law (say if they would go house to house to confiscate weapons) would have to be killed before the govt would say, "oh, maybe we made a mistake passing that law" and repeal/modify it? Who would actually agree to enforce the law (since I believe most, if not all, law enforcement/military "oaths" state that they swear to uphold the constitution, and taking away guns (even certain types), would/could be construed as violating the 2nd amendment)?
Last time I checked, there were several drugs that were illegal too. But it seems like most anyone can get/posses some, if desired.
I understand the concern people have about restrictive gun legislation (I have it too). But people need to use a little common sense on what could happen and what will likely happen.
Maybe I am under-reacting, maybe some people are over-reacting, I don't know. But I will say that I will always have a gun for protection/hunting/etc., no matter what type of gun laws are passed.
Just my .02.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:30 AM   #5
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This isnt a federal ban, but a state action and there are more than enough commies in the NY state house and legislature to pass this legislation, we already have a assault weapon ban still in place in NY, and some of the most restrictive handgun lawsin the nation, you have to remember that NYC has a strangle hold on NYS politics due to their population and rabid anti gun attitudes.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:10 PM   #6
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Good stuff guys..

I hope I don't sound like chicken little running around these threads but keep in mind there's more than one way to skin a cat! First hand experience, I've been trying to buy a bulk pack or two of Rem 22lr golden bullets for 2 weeks. Just went to walmart (again) this morning and they got 6 cases in last Friday. 2 customers bought a case each, the rest were gone by the end of the day.. You can hardly find any ammo around here right now, anywhere. It's a scary feeling, and hell ammo is still legal.. So on that line of thought, what's stopping the outlaw of ammo? Which is something I've done some reading on in the past.. No need to keep records, just stop selling it. Politicians know that the road to a gun ban utopia is all but impossible but no bullets turns your Glock into an expensive hammer... AND they don't have to be guilty of banning a single weapon.

How likely is it to happen? Probably not very, at least in the near future. Who knows tho?? I have to wonder what "other" methods can be used against us..?

Just something to ponder...........
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:34 PM   #7
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Good stuff guys..

I hope I don't sound like chicken little running around these threads but keep in mind there's more than one way to skin a cat! First hand experience, I've been trying to buy a bulk pack or two of Rem 22lr golden bullets for 2 weeks. Just went to walmart (again) this morning and they got 6 cases in last Friday. 2 customers bought a case each, the rest were gone by the end of the day.. You can hardly find any ammo around here right now, anywhere. It's a scary feeling, and hell ammo is still legal.. So on that line of thought, what's stopping the outlaw of ammo? Which is something I've done some reading on in the past.. No need to keep records, just stop selling it. Politicians know that the road to a gun ban utopia is all but impossible but no bullets turns your Glock into an expensive hammer... AND they don't have to be guilty of banning a single weapon.

How likely is it to happen? Probably not very, at least in the near future. Who knows tho?? I have to wonder what "other" methods can be used against us..?

Just something to ponder...........
The shortage of ammo is a possibility. I doubt it will ever be banned, there may just be a "shortage"....likely caused from people running out and buying it all up, as soon as a place gets it in stock.
The war(s) took a lot of the ammo supply, that would normally be available to the public. So now that it is winding down, hopefully the supply will come back up.
If factory/preloaded ammo isn't available, then there is always the option to buy the individual components and load your own. I know there have been occasional "shortages" of reloading components too, such as primers, but they can be found.
I would guess that components and loaded ammo will eventually be readily available again, in the future. When it does become easy to find again, stock up if you are worried.
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:25 PM   #8
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The right to keep and bear arms also includes ammunition.

Even with the wars being winding down, the slack in govt demand for ammunition has been taken up by the huge massive ammunition orders made by DHS in the past year.

Some rifle parts(AR15) are now being restocked on gunshop shelves now that we are in 2013 for tax purposes instead of sitting in trailers. You wont find any lowers or uppers available for some time, every shop I have seen are 8-12 months out on availablity for them.
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:48 PM   #9
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Yeah I hope this shortage is only temporary.. I wonder though, how long is temporary and when will the next disaster (excuse) hit?? I get a little nervous when I can't find a single 22lr bullet for sale in KY. That just ain't right!

Been seeing some uppers, lowers and even mags on armslist but like everything else right now, you're gonna pay for em!

So now we wait....
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:03 PM   #10
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Ammo and components will be coming back in dribs and drabs for a bit, last thursday my local gunshop got in 5k small rifle primers and they had been as hard to find as hens teeth.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:04 AM   #11
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So as it turns out, the sky isn't falling.. I was able to pick up a couple boxes of Win 555 yesterday. It's just harder than it should be.....
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:24 AM   #12
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Several companies manufacturing magazines and other components have jumped their prices to match ebay and the scumbags who purchased hundreds of mags and then turned around re-selling them for 50-70$ each. These manufacturers have stated they will donate a large portion of the additional "profit" to the NRA and or disabled veterans causes.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:43 AM   #13
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all I can say is to do a google search on "weapons seizure Katrina" lots of stories there about what happened and who did it. Did not matter the type of gun or who you were or the threat level. No receipts given, very few returned after it was "over".
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:03 PM   #14
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all I can say is to do a google search on "weapons seizure Katrina" lots of stories there about what happened and who did it. Did not matter the type of gun or who you were or the threat level. No receipts given, very few returned after it was "over".
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...-katrina_N.htm

NRA to settle suit over Katrina gun seizures
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NEW ORLEANS (AP) — City officials have agreed to return hundreds of firearms that police officers confiscated in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, part of a deal to resolve a lawsuit filed by gun lobbying groups.

The settlement agreement filed Tuesday in federal court calls for the National Rifle Association and Second Amendment Foundation to drop their case if the city follows a plan for returning guns to owners who had them seized by police after the Aug. 29, 2005, hurricane.

CREDIT CRISIS: New Orleans' recovery threatened

Both sides also are asking U.S. District Judge Carl Barbier to sign off on the pact and issue a permanent injunction barring the city from seizing lawfully possessed firearms. Barbier didn't immediately rule on the agreement, which doesn't involve a monetary award.

Police department spokesman Bob Young said it has stored 552 guns that were confiscated after Katrina, through Dec. 31, 2005. Police have said they only took guns that were stolen or found in abandoned homes.

The agreement calls for the city to post a notice on its website that explains how gun owners can claim their firearms.

Gun owners must sign an affidavit claiming ownership of a gun but don't need to present written proof, such as a sales receipt or serial number. A background check also is required to certify that someone claiming a gun can legally possess a firearm.

The city won't be liable if a dispute arises over the ownership of a returned gun. Authorities can dispose of any guns that go unclaimed after two years.

"This is all we've wanted all along: a practical return program," said NRA lawyer Stephen Halbrook, who estimated that the department should have 1,200 guns available for owners to claim.

"I think it satisfies all our concerns," said Dave Workman, a spokesman for the Bellevue, Wash.-based Second Amendment Foundation. "The city for way too long has been dragging its feet on this. We're glad it's over and we can move on to other issues."

Young said the department "will do everything possible to notify people that their guns are available for pickup."

In April 2006, police made about 700 firearms available for owners to claim if they could present a bill of sale or an affidavit with the weapon's serial number. Halbrook, however, said few people could present proof of ownership after Katrina, which flooded 80% of the city.

Mayor Ray Nagin and Police Superintendent Warren Riley were defendants in the case, which was scheduled to be tried next month.

In their lawsuit, the gun lobbying groups accused the city of violating gun owners' constitutional right to bear arms and leaving them "at the mercy of roving gangs, home invaders, and other criminals" after Katrina.

In response, the city argued that federal law doesn't apply to the plaintiffs' claims against city officials "because the right to keep and bear arms has never been recognized as a fundamental individual right."
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:22 PM   #15
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In response, the city argued that federal law doesn't apply to the plaintiffs' claims against city officials "because the right to keep and bear arms has never been recognized as a fundamental individual right."[/I]

Wow!! To hell with that constitution thingy........
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:07 PM   #16
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:16 PM   #17
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On another note....how many gun owners do you think would actually comply to registering their guns/magazines/etc., if a law like that ever gets passed? Not many, IMO.
A law like that is just going to make law-abiding citizens into "criminals", IMO.

I would be labeled as a criminal, had I not lost all my stuff in a tragic boating accident...
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:19 PM   #18
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:03 PM   #19
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I would be labeled as a criminal, had I not lost all my stuff in a tragic boating accident...
And that will be their justification for making a larger grab,,,citizens not following the law..a catch22...typical liberals, sneaky scumsucking underhanded skeeving idiots!
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:05 PM   #20
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:06 PM   #21
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:54 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyhiranger View Post
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...-katrina_N.htm

NRA to settle suit over Katrina gun seizures
Posted | Comment | Recommend E-mail | Print |
NEW ORLEANS (AP) — City officials have agreed to return hundreds of firearms that police officers confiscated in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, part of a deal to resolve a lawsuit filed by gun lobbying groups.

The settlement agreement filed Tuesday in federal court calls for the National Rifle Association and Second Amendment Foundation to drop their case if the city follows a plan for returning guns to owners who had them seized by police after the Aug. 29, 2005, hurricane.

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Both sides also are asking U.S. District Judge Carl Barbier to sign off on the pact and issue a permanent injunction barring the city from seizing lawfully possessed firearms. Barbier didn't immediately rule on the agreement, which doesn't involve a monetary award.

Police department spokesman Bob Young said it has stored 552 guns that were confiscated after Katrina, through Dec. 31, 2005. Police have said they only took guns that were stolen or found in abandoned homes.

The agreement calls for the city to post a notice on its website that explains how gun owners can claim their firearms.

Gun owners must sign an affidavit claiming ownership of a gun but don't need to present written proof, such as a sales receipt or serial number. A background check also is required to certify that someone claiming a gun can legally possess a firearm.

The city won't be liable if a dispute arises over the ownership of a returned gun. Authorities can dispose of any guns that go unclaimed after two years.

"This is all we've wanted all along: a practical return program," said NRA lawyer Stephen Halbrook, who estimated that the department should have 1,200 guns available for owners to claim.

"I think it satisfies all our concerns," said Dave Workman, a spokesman for the Bellevue, Wash.-based Second Amendment Foundation. "The city for way too long has been dragging its feet on this. We're glad it's over and we can move on to other issues."

Young said the department "will do everything possible to notify people that their guns are available for pickup."

In April 2006, police made about 700 firearms available for owners to claim if they could present a bill of sale or an affidavit with the weapon's serial number. Halbrook, however, said few people could present proof of ownership after Katrina, which flooded 80% of the city.

Mayor Ray Nagin and Police Superintendent Warren Riley were defendants in the case, which was scheduled to be tried next month.

In their lawsuit, the gun lobbying groups accused the city of violating gun owners' constitutional right to bear arms and leaving them "at the mercy of roving gangs, home invaders, and other criminals" after Katrina.

In response, the city argued that federal law doesn't apply to the plaintiffs' claims against city officials "because the right to keep and bear arms has never been recognized as a fundamental individual right."

The NRA is settling because of money issues...watch the videos from the people who tell how their guns were taken, including the old woman with the unloaded revolver that was taken to the floor and smacked around.

Theres going to be lots of people standing around with their mouth hanging open saying "I thought the constitution protected us from this". Go fly on a commercial jet and hope like hell your children are not the ones subjected to a personal frisking with no probably cause. Just keep telling yourself, "it won't happen here".
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:01 AM   #23
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A little good news, but it's not over yet!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/11/us...nra.html?_r=1&
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:16 AM   #24
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Here in NY the scum sucking flatlanders down in the city are pushing their anti 2nd amendment legislation onto the rest of the state, it is even more restrictive than what the feds want, This is gonna get ugly!
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:30 AM   #25
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New York shoots themselves in the foot again, Bushmaster just moved there from North Cacalaky, think of the jobs.
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