Go Back   Zukikrawlers > General > For the Outdoorsman!
Photo Gallery Home Forum FlashChat Email

For the Outdoorsman! Camping, hunting, fishing, reloading, shooting - whatever you do for outdoor recreation fun.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-09-2013, 08:05 PM   #1
talonxracer
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Catskill Mtns N.Y.
Posts: 2,081
Rep Power: 248873
talonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond repute
Home defense round for my 300BLK

Well I wanted to make up some home defense rounds for the 300BLK. The rounds will be subsonic terrors. The projectile of choice is the Lehigh Defense 170grn controlled fracturing round, one wicked looking round made from brass with a 17 caliber copper/lead projectile stuck in the nose!


Here is a video with a gel shot showing just how lethal this round is!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=FGP0vUtaiAg
__________________

MUTANTS for NUKES,,, feel the GLOW !!!
talonxracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 10:05 PM   #2
john539
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: chehalis wa
Posts: 784
Rep Power: 27419
john539 has a reputation beyond reputejohn539 has a reputation beyond reputejohn539 has a reputation beyond reputejohn539 has a reputation beyond reputejohn539 has a reputation beyond reputejohn539 has a reputation beyond reputejohn539 has a reputation beyond reputejohn539 has a reputation beyond reputejohn539 has a reputation beyond reputejohn539 has a reputation beyond reputejohn539 has a reputation beyond repute
Nice
__________________

john539 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 10:08 PM   #3
mgp541
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pryor, Oklahoma
Posts: 451
Rep Power: 13641
mgp541 has a reputation beyond reputemgp541 has a reputation beyond reputemgp541 has a reputation beyond reputemgp541 has a reputation beyond reputemgp541 has a reputation beyond reputemgp541 has a reputation beyond reputemgp541 has a reputation beyond reputemgp541 has a reputation beyond reputemgp541 has a reputation beyond reputemgp541 has a reputation beyond reputemgp541 has a reputation beyond repute
That's pretty sweet
mgp541 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2013, 08:59 AM   #4
slowNgo
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: just outside of Bowling Green KY
Posts: 582
Rep Power: 25601
slowNgo has a reputation beyond reputeslowNgo has a reputation beyond reputeslowNgo has a reputation beyond reputeslowNgo has a reputation beyond reputeslowNgo has a reputation beyond reputeslowNgo has a reputation beyond reputeslowNgo has a reputation beyond reputeslowNgo has a reputation beyond reputeslowNgo has a reputation beyond reputeslowNgo has a reputation beyond reputeslowNgo has a reputation beyond repute
BoooYaaah!!
__________________
"Real patriotism is a willingness to challenge the government when it's wrong." -Ron Paul

Round vent tin top.. Come getcha some, son!!
slowNgo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2013, 03:29 PM   #5
Rock4xFab
Master Fabricator Vendor
 
Rock4xFab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Illinois/Wisconsin Border
Posts: 2,231
Rep Power: 21340
Rock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond repute
Hmmm a go direct to prison round for man slaughter.
__________________
The Originator and MFG of the Toyota Adapter ... Don't settle for a copysamurai 4:57 and 5:38 gear sets $175.00 + sh
Rock 4x Fabrication, Inc
OUR NEW PHONE NUMBER
1.847.544.1823
Rock4xFab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2013, 05:16 PM   #6
talonxracer
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Catskill Mtns N.Y.
Posts: 2,081
Rep Power: 248873
talonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond repute
Why would you say that? This is a perfectly legal home defense round, heck ball and chain shotgun rounds are legal here in NY (not in NYC).

To show how different my county is from the rest of NY state, my county doesnt like to issue concealed carry handgun licenses, but that isnt an issue as we are an open carry license county unlike the rest of the state, and our rights transfer with us as we travel around the state(again other than NYC).
__________________

MUTANTS for NUKES,,, feel the GLOW !!!
talonxracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 01:22 PM   #7
Rock4xFab
Master Fabricator Vendor
 
Rock4xFab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Illinois/Wisconsin Border
Posts: 2,231
Rep Power: 21340
Rock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond repute
The way your picture showed it looked to be a handload and handloads are illegal for self-defense
__________________
The Originator and MFG of the Toyota Adapter ... Don't settle for a copysamurai 4:57 and 5:38 gear sets $175.00 + sh
Rock 4x Fabrication, Inc
OUR NEW PHONE NUMBER
1.847.544.1823
Rock4xFab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 02:38 PM   #8
OregonFXSTC
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Blue Mnts Oregon
Posts: 209
Rep Power: 1000
OregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond reputeOregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond reputeOregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond reputeOregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond reputeOregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond reputeOregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond reputeOregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond reputeOregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond reputeOregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond reputeOregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond reputeOregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock4xFab View Post
The way your picture showed it looked to be a handload and handloads are illegal for self-defense
There's nothing unlawful about using hand loads.
OregonFXSTC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 05:07 PM   #9
talonxracer
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Catskill Mtns N.Y.
Posts: 2,081
Rep Power: 248873
talonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock4xFab View Post
The way your picture showed it looked to be a handload and handloads are illegal for self-defense
That has to be a state law for you, not a federal or NY state law(where I am located). All of my ammo is handloaded and perfectly legal. Those rounds are available loaded from the manufacturer as well.
__________________

MUTANTS for NUKES,,, feel the GLOW !!!
talonxracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2013, 12:10 PM   #10
Rock4xFab
Master Fabricator Vendor
 
Rock4xFab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Illinois/Wisconsin Border
Posts: 2,231
Rep Power: 21340
Rock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond reputeRock4xFab has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by talonxracer View Post
That has to be a state law for you, not a federal or NY state law(where I am located). All of my ammo is handloaded and perfectly legal. Those rounds are available loaded from the manufacturer as well.
Thats the key manufactured ammo. If you kill someone with reloaded AMMO you are in deep shit!

It is harder to prove the ballistics of your hand loads from known industry standards, The attourney coming after your ass for the guy you just wipped out has to prove you were blood thirsty and needed better ammo then off the shelf. Once they establish that your in deep shit and may face jail time. I know it is bullshit you defending yourself why does it matter. In court IT DOES.

Even if your loads are good, if you go to court your attorney has to be ready for anything and everything that comes up. Reloads are a potential problem area, whether one likes to admit it or not, so the attorney has to prepare for that issue. The attorney probably doesn't know that much about ammo, so he will need to hire an expert in the field to consult. If you are really lucky the expert will only cost around $500. Then the attorney will bill the hours he has needed to check with the expert and prepare for the issue. Let's say it's $1000. So your reloaded ammo has cost you $1500 in legal fees, and it is apt to get a whole lot worse. Given that factory ammo is just fine and will do an excellent job for SD, is the extra cost worth it?

I am just saying the best advise for Self defence is eliminate the question of what load was used, move through the trial and be done.
__________________
The Originator and MFG of the Toyota Adapter ... Don't settle for a copysamurai 4:57 and 5:38 gear sets $175.00 + sh
Rock 4x Fabrication, Inc
OUR NEW PHONE NUMBER
1.847.544.1823
Rock4xFab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2013, 12:59 PM   #11
talonxracer
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Catskill Mtns N.Y.
Posts: 2,081
Rep Power: 248873
talonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond repute
Easily solved by buying them already loaded to my specs by Lehigh.
__________________

MUTANTS for NUKES,,, feel the GLOW !!!
talonxracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2013, 06:56 PM   #12
OregonFXSTC
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Blue Mnts Oregon
Posts: 209
Rep Power: 1000
OregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond reputeOregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond reputeOregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond reputeOregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond reputeOregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond reputeOregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond reputeOregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond reputeOregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond reputeOregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond reputeOregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond reputeOregonFXSTC has a reputation beyond repute
How is it blood thirsty murder because you use a hand load but no so when you use the best killing ammo you can find on the market that was developed specifically to kill a person?

A good shoot is a good shoot.

The only time handloads ever came into question is the Daniel Bias case.
The main case, as noted above, cited for the proposition of not using hand loads, involved a "suicide" where it appears a guy allegedly killed his girlfriend and tried to cover it up. He was convicted, and from what I can see, rightfully so.He claimed his wife committed suicide and they found him guilty of murder due to the reloads in his gun not being able to be tested against factory ammo, where powder residue would land etc.That one case was a real oddball.
The guy apparently had some superlight loads and some more standard ones. The issue was whether she shot herself or he shot her from a longer range. The extremely small amount of powder residue and his inability to show which kind of load was in the gun was the source of the trouble.
The jury deadlocked first go, and the prosecutor apparently was an anti gun sort intent on nailing the guy on something.

If you use factory ammo, you won't have the issue. If you decide to reload and concerned, then keep exacting records, give a lot number to your own rounds, and know what you have in the gun. I'd even keeping back a few as samples just in case they feel the need to do ballistics.
If the reloads send you to jail, it's because there were other things that were extremely difficult about the case.

A good shoot is a good shoot.
I dont know your states laws, can anyone point to any state statute or code that says the use of handloaded (reloaded or any other similar term) is illegal or that only factory ammo is legal?

Last edited by OregonFXSTC; 01-12-2013 at 07:12 PM.
OregonFXSTC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2013, 07:10 PM   #13
JasonR
 
JasonR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Spanaway, WA
Posts: 2,155
Rep Power: 12073
JasonR has a reputation beyond reputeJasonR has a reputation beyond reputeJasonR has a reputation beyond reputeJasonR has a reputation beyond reputeJasonR has a reputation beyond reputeJasonR has a reputation beyond reputeJasonR has a reputation beyond reputeJasonR has a reputation beyond reputeJasonR has a reputation beyond reputeJasonR has a reputation beyond reputeJasonR has a reputation beyond repute
Your talking case law. Case law doesn't dictate if a action is illegal or not. Because someone lost a case for a specific reason doesn't dictate that it is illegal. Its possible that you may loose if you go to court but case law doesn't dictate probable cause for arrest. It more times than not dictate the other way. Law enforcement educated on current case law tend not to make arrests on actions that won't hold up in court. A common one is DUI.
__________________
'86, SPOA. YJ front/rear, full cage, 6.5:1, 4.62 Lockers F/R 33 Swampers, MS2 Toy/PSC PS, Maxima rear disc and whole bunch of other shit.

JasonR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2013, 07:26 PM   #14
talonxracer
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Catskill Mtns N.Y.
Posts: 2,081
Rep Power: 248873
talonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond repute
If an intruder or criminal has pushed it to the point of me having to pull the trigger, yes I will be absolutely bloodthirsty at that moment, of course I want to inflict the maximum amount of damage as possible in the shortest amount of time, and if it was possible to have a round that would leave not a single inch of undamaged flesh left after shooting, I would use it! I dont want you getting back up!


I keep meticulous records, I will know what rounds were used and can easily produce the load data.
__________________

MUTANTS for NUKES,,, feel the GLOW !!!

Last edited by talonxracer; 01-12-2013 at 07:31 PM.
talonxracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2013, 08:43 PM   #15
Hope Springs Hauler
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hamilton, OH
Posts: 210
Rep Power: 1701
Hope Springs Hauler has a reputation beyond reputeHope Springs Hauler has a reputation beyond reputeHope Springs Hauler has a reputation beyond reputeHope Springs Hauler has a reputation beyond reputeHope Springs Hauler has a reputation beyond reputeHope Springs Hauler has a reputation beyond reputeHope Springs Hauler has a reputation beyond reputeHope Springs Hauler has a reputation beyond reputeHope Springs Hauler has a reputation beyond reputeHope Springs Hauler has a reputation beyond reputeHope Springs Hauler has a reputation beyond repute
I did some research on this and have found that the problem doesn't typically lie with the criminal system but with the civil court system. When you are "justified" to defend yourself, your family or friends; it really doesn't matter if you use 12ga 00buck or a 22lr.

However, the same does not hold in a civil court case where the prosecuting attorney only has to make a jury of sheeple think that you were pre-meditating about hurting or killing someone as you sat there loading the ammo. Yes, it is a load of crap but you hear of er things everyday.

If you are lucky, your state has castle doctrine that extends far enough to armor you against civil cases if you were found to be justified in your initial actions.

It is my belief that the civil court system must be reformed in two primary ways. 1) If you lose, you pick up the attorney fees of the other party. 2) If the complaint arises from the criminal action of the plaintiff or representative, the entire case should be dismissed.

The second case would eliminate concerns from robbers and attackers (or family) suing their intended victims when they are maimed, injured or killed in the course of their actions.
__________________
1988.5 Sami on FJ40 5.14 TCase 36" TSL-SX 93"WB
Burnin' the BBQ
Hope Springs Hauler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2013, 09:18 PM   #16
talonxracer
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Catskill Mtns N.Y.
Posts: 2,081
Rep Power: 248873
talonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond reputetalonxracer has a reputation beyond repute
You wont be able to fix the civil suit debacle, the lawyers make the friggin laws, they ARE the problem. My fix would eliminate 80% of lawyers from practicing law.
__________________

MUTANTS for NUKES,,, feel the GLOW !!!
talonxracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2013, 09:24 PM   #17
JasonR
 
JasonR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Spanaway, WA
Posts: 2,155
Rep Power: 12073
JasonR has a reputation beyond reputeJasonR has a reputation beyond reputeJasonR has a reputation beyond reputeJasonR has a reputation beyond reputeJasonR has a reputation beyond reputeJasonR has a reputation beyond reputeJasonR has a reputation beyond reputeJasonR has a reputation beyond reputeJasonR has a reputation beyond reputeJasonR has a reputation beyond reputeJasonR has a reputation beyond repute
There will more than likely be a civil law suit regardless. Civil law suits do not involve prosecuting attorneys by the way. It's plaintiff vs. defendant.
__________________
'86, SPOA. YJ front/rear, full cage, 6.5:1, 4.62 Lockers F/R 33 Swampers, MS2 Toy/PSC PS, Maxima rear disc and whole bunch of other shit.

JasonR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A man's age determined by a trip to Home threewhd Anything and Everything 14 09-01-2011 08:29 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:59 AM.

design by Themes by Design

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2005-2017 Zukikrawlers.com